Talk:Arnett McMillan/@comment-27788729-20160523202720/@comment-27788729-20160527080816
@Citrus: No you quite clearly did misunderstand me, seeing as how if you had understood my meaning I doubt we'd be having this conversation. The proof, as stated before, is that, going by the interpretation that what occurred was not mind control then, quite explicitly, Elizabeth, Arnett and Ticy all three, voluntarily, desired to be Kazuya's slaves, surrender themselves and their lives to Kazuya and Elizabeth considered the effect to also threaten her feelings for André, requiring her to reaffirm them to herself. So, if it is not mind control, there is your substantiation. If you say 'where is the proof?' again I am not going to retype it. In addition I have no idea what 'additional' evidence I came up with recently. I haven't changed my core points since last I spoke so you'll have to actually point them out, instead of simply claiming their existence, if you want me to address them. But seriously? Seriously? I don't even see a point in continuing this conversation if you would actually claim there is 'nothing erotic or no feeling of sexual arousal' since that's just blatantly false. Just go read chapters 196 and 197 again, they literally involve both eroticism, sexual arousal and slavish devotion. Its explicit, not hidden. Why else do you think those chapters got the 'Better than Sex' and 'Unwanted Harem' tropes added to Freezing on Tv Tropes? Seriously I'm not going to debate that point with you since that's just canonically what happened in the manga. Yes all Kazuya is there to do is induce Transcendence, which as we've now seen involves a intimate experience with the Pandora which engenders in them enormous pleasure, a desire to submit to him as slaves and forsake everything else in surrender to him. That is all. Honestly this conversation is getting repetitive since you make no points at all, you simply blurb facts in a euthanized form so as to avoid stating what they actually mean. If you want lets make a bet; I bet you that no Limiter will ever be shown making an Ereinbar Set with their Pandora partner, having an intimate or close experience or moment with their Pandora partner, or being gushed over in a romantic sense by their Pandora partner from this point onwards. I also will then bet you that we will see virtually every named Pandora, from this point onwards, performing an Ereinbar Set with Kazuya, becoming affectionate and close to Kazuya and gushing over Kazuya. If you believe what you are saying then I presume you'd dispute this? Also, again, seriously, you must have misunderstood me because you come up with fictious points I never made; I never states Kazuya is going to stop anyone from being with someone they want to be with, never said that even once. Trust me I find this conversation as tiresome as you do. I enjoy discussing this matter with certain people on here, I find their attitudes hospitable, their positions reasonable and their method for argumentation understandable, but unfortunately with you I do not have those sensations at all. You compare it to going in circles whereas, for me, it feels like running into a brick wall called 'what actually happened in the chapters'. So why continue? I doubt you derive any joy from this and, to be honest, though I do enjoy quite a bit of the people I've spoken with here, I don't find a discussion with you on this topic is ever one which goes anywhere since you largely repeat a series of euthanized terms to dodge the full connotation for an emotional relationships that would actually be the result of such occurrences. I don't like to be mean, even if I do feel you've been unnecessarily hostile, and I already personally feel guilty over my above message for being more strongly worded then I think is acceptable, but at the same time I also, like you, become tired of a pointless conversation. Not all these conversations are pointless, I've had numerous I've enjoyed and even altered my perception, but with you...it just doesn't go anywhere. If you still wish to have it, fine, but then I'd recommend we discuss something of more substance, like maybe start on a more concrete problem; if Arnett is willing to murder Morrison if ordered to by Kazuya, how do you justify your position? (If your answer is simply that she'd never be ordered to please don't bother since that changes nothing. The emotions are what matter here, love is an emotion.) @anon: I honestly think I'm going to stop responding to you, I just don't see the point, its not so much a conversation with you as it is you simply ranting inanely over disconnected points, failing to address anything I say, and then throwing slurs at me. For the most part I've found people on this wiki to be reasonable, respectful and mature in discussion. Sadly you definitely do not qualify for any of those. I do not wish to be drawn into a name calling match so I'll simply ignore your incredibly rude demeanour. Thus I'm not going to respond to you anymore, there is no point, and I personally find the morality you've been espousing rather reprehensible. Have a pleasant day.